Marilyn Burns

Partial Transcript: We are in Kendall at Oberlin. Max and I are going to discuss education and the ways in which Marylin Burns feels prepared for life outside the classroom. May we proceed with the interview?
[yes]

Partial Transcript: Tell me a bit about when and where you were born, what neighborhood you lived in, and what your home life was like in your childhood.

I was born in Springfield, Vermont and I grew up as an only child until I was 14 in a town of about 8,000 at that time. It was a machine tool town, and it was at the beginning of the Great Depression. I was part of a clan: my mother was one of eight, she was third in the birth order. Her sister and all of her brothers lived in the town, and my grandmother, and so it was a nice small town living.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin explains that she is from Vermont and tells us a bit about her family and her town.

Keywords: Family; Postive Relations

Subjects: Family; Great Depression; Hometown; Small Town

Partial Transcript: Any things about the town and your childhood that have stayed with you? (sights, sounds, etc.)

The fact that it was a machine tool town, which was either a "boom" or a "bust". Actually, I was born in 1929 in November, the same month that the stock market went zooming down. It was a town with a lot of farms surrounding it. My uncle had one of the dairy farms. The shops didn't lay people off, they put them on short time, so some people were working 2 days a week and were getting very small amounts. When the machine tool industry picked up just before World War 2, they had trained and skilled people in place. So, my view of economics is that you're going to have boom times, and you're going to have depression times, so save your money during the booms times because you know the depression is coming after. So far it's worked pretty well!

Segment Synopsis: Marylin discusses the economic situation in her hometown in terms of depression vs. "boom" times.

Keywords: Autonomy; Coping; Family; Purpose in Life; Self-acceptance

Subjects: Boom or Bust-- Machine tool town; Economics; Farming; Great Depression; Machine tool industry; World War Two

Partial Transcript: Besides Vermont, where else have you lived?

I've lived in New Hampshire, over half my life in Massachusetts, and I have lived in Pampa, Texas for a little over a year. And Ohio of course!

Segment Synopsis: She lists the places that she has lived.

Keywords: Home

Subjects: Massachusetts; New Hampshire; Ohio; Texas; Vermont

Partial Transcript: Where have you worked and where have you studied?

I worked in Goshen, Vermont in a camp for handicapped children during college; that was in the summer. I worked at Children's Medical Center in Boston, Massachusetts. I worked at Mary Hitchcock Hospital, now Dartmouth Hitchcock, in Hanover, New Hampshire. I worked at the Cerebral Palsy Training Center of the Merrimack Valley in Lawrence, Massachusetts, and also at Lawrence General Hospital in Massachusetts.

I studied at the Springfield Public Schools, and then the University of Vermont. I received a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Zoology, and then I had a scholarship to go to Simmons College in Boston, Massachusetts, under a March of Dimes scholarship. It was in the time of Polio epidemics, and they were desperate for physical therapists. So, I trained there and worked there afterwards.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin talks about the places she has worked, including a camp for handicapped children, Children's Medical Center, Mary Hitchcock Hospital, Cerebral Palsy Training Center, and Lawrence General Hospital.
She mentions going to school in Springfield and Simmons College.

Keywords: Education; Environmental Mastery; Personal Growth

Subjects: Employment; Physical Therapy; Polio Epidemic; University of Vermont; Volunteering; Zoology

Partial Transcript: What has education allowed you to discover about yourself?

Well I grew up in a family where my father, mother, and one of my grandmothers were really into nature. I can't remember a time where I wasn't a bird-watcher. So it was a natural progression to major in Biology. I started as a Botany major, and at University of Vermont, you had to take a year of general Zoology if you're a Botany major. So, when I landed in Zoology I thought "Really, this is great. This is for me." That's what I did, and it proved to be-- I mean this is a life-long interest, so I just followed that.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin is interested in nature, and talks about how it lead her into studying zoology.

Keywords: Discovery; Nature; Personal growth; Purpose in life; Self-acceptance

Subjects: Biology; Botony; University of Vermont

Partial Transcript: How specifically did college work to help you discover your values?

I think I always knew it. I mean, when you find something you really like, you think "Wow, this is good. Well, that's it". I mean, you're sincere. I was very fortunate that I did have scholarship, and I had a subtle indication from my parents that I was going to college. I was the first in my mother's family to go to college. But I remember even as a small child, as a preschooler, walking downtown with my mother to go shopping, and we would stop at the Savings and Loan, and she had this bank book and she would put in a deposit on a regular basis. I think it was once a month. And that kept up, and that was for my college fund. The interesting thing now is that it amounted to $1000 dollars. This is in the Great Depression, and I think that says something. My mother had been valedictorian of her class, and any valedictorian in any school in Vermont got a $200 scholarship to be used their freshman year. Well, she wasn't able to use it, but she made very sure I did. My father worked his way through high school, he was from a very small town. He boarded and roomed in the town of Brattleboro, Vermont and wound up being class president and getting an award for the person who tried the hardest to go through high school. So, it's a value.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin is grateful for her scholarship opportunities and the financial help offered to her by her parents that allowed her to explore her educational values.

Keywords: Personal growth; Positive Relationships; Purpose in Life; Self-acceptance

Subjects: Family; Family History; First Generation Scholar; Great Depression; Scholarship

Partial Transcript: Did you have mentors in your education that helped you?

I don't remember that, I remember one odd thing. I was advised by the advisor that I didn't need to take second year algebra, and then I went on to take solid geometry and trigonometry. Then at the University of Vermont you had to have freshman math and that was really complicated because I was supposed to be working with those graphs and I didn't know how to put them there very well in the first place. I managed to pull it off, but that was very bad advice, so I can't really say that they gave me much guidance. My daughter-in-law, who is a professor of Psychology says "well that indicates the attitude towards young women at that time", because that was 1947.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin recalls some bad advice that lead her to struggle in mathematics. Her daughter-in-law related the advice to attitudes about women in the 1940s.

Keywords: Autonomy; Family; Feminism; Negative Relations; Values

Subjects: Advisor; Guidance; Mentorship; Womanhood

Partial Transcript: How has your interest in zoology, botany, and birds become a strength that has played a role in your life?

Well when I came to Kendall, we had to write a little essay on what we like, and all my life I've liked being with people, nature, art, music, and history. That's just who I am, and those things are like a magnet. So that's what I go towards.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin believes that she has had her core values and interests her entire life, and that they are fundamental.

Keywords: Personal growth; Purpose in life; Self Acceptance; Values

Subjects: Art; History; Music

Partial Transcript: How has your education helped you discover your own convictions?

I don't know, unless it's the fact that I've probably met a lot more people from a lot more backgrounds. I think my cultural environment of growing up in northern New England and living there most of my life, and Massachusetts is similar. I have always been an independent, politically. I grew up in an area where that is a value. It's an area of real town meetings, where anyone who is a registered voter has the ability to speak for a limited time, and they will be heard. I think that is basic democracy, and that is something to fight for.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin's education allowed her to meet a diverse array of people. Her life in New England lead her to be a political independent since it was valued in that area.

Keywords: Autonomy; Culture; Diversity; Personal Growth; Positive Relationships

Subjects: Independent Party; New England; Politics; Voting

Partial Transcript: Do politics play an important part in your life right now?

Oberlin is quite a shock, because it is predominantly one way, and people that think in a different way may be considered wrong or strange or stupid. That bothers me, but it doesn't make me quiet. Occasionally I make a statement and say "well there's another way to do it."
I spent over half my life in Massachusetts which is a predominantly democratic state, and it has had a whole string of Republican governors which has worked out fine.
It means that people listen to each other. I always want to know "okay, you're on the other side of the fence. What are you hearing that makes you think that way?" and I think that's important.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin discusses the political climate of Oberlin and her belief that all political opinions should be heard. She wants to know why people think the way they do.

Keywords: Autonomy; Personal Growth; Positive Relationships; Self-acceptance

Subjects: Oberlin; Ohio; Politics

Partial Transcript: How has living with your convictions played a role in your sense of emotional well-being?

I know I don't go down without a fight. I learned that by going through some hard times, so I think that this notion that life has to be happy all the time is not valid.

Segment Synopsis: Marilyn is autonomous in her convictions and believes people don't need to be happy all of the time.

Keywords: Autonomy; Happiness; Personal Growth; Purpose in Life

Partial Transcript: How has education helped you feel connected to others?

I knew some people who were at the University of Vermont before I arrived there, and that's because I had been going in the summer time for one week right after school closed to a church camp. I met kids from all over the state, and we did things throughout the year by meeting in various towns. So, I had a head start and knew some people. We had students from Vermont and other states in New England, and a lot from New Jersey and New York. That was in 1947, one of the largest years for veterans going to school under the GI bill. We started in October because they were still building dormitories.
I remember distinctly going into the first English class; I had passed the English exam and didn't have to take Freshman year English. I was in the Sophomore Literature class. I was sitting in the second row, and all of a sudden all these grown men started coming in--they were vets. We started discussion, and a lot of them had been in the various countries for military service and I remember thinking "I'm not in high school anymore!".
I think it was a wonderful time to go: they changed the level so much because the majority would not have been able to go to college. It put a lot of young adults and some older ones together. Many were married and had families, living in trailer camps. They knew exactly why they were in college. I hear stories of parents calling professors to supervise the grades the kids are getting! That would have been ludicrous because we were depression kids and we had all dealt with World War 2. It's hard to explain how different it was and to realize that now it's part of history.

Looking back, I think the fact that it was difficult, but we pulled through, developed skills. We remember what our parents and grandparents did, and that is a marvelous strength to realize the culture we live in now is a fraud. It's not realistic enough, but I have a lot of trust in the ability of human beings to come together when times are tough.
We have it here at Kendall! There are some Oberlin College students who volunteer, and quite a few who have worked here. We have people from all kinds of backgrounds, a lot of different states and countries, as well as an age difference. We have people from my time, people from 60's uprisings, some have a lot of children and some don't. We have different backgrounds and various levels of education. It keeps on going, and that's one of the fun things here.

Segment Synopsis: Marylin knew some people at the University of Vermont before she arrived, which gave her a head start. Many students lived on the east coast. She remembers being in Sophomore Literature class and seeing veterans enter the room, who contributed to the cultural knowledge of the space. She appreciates going to school in this time period because the hardships of World War 2 brought in many kinds of students who knew why they were in college.
She looks back on the difficulties of school during that time period and comments that the present culture is not realistic enough, but she has faith in humanity.
Kendall at Oberlin has community across generations as well. Student volunteers and a diverse client range exhibit many life experiences.

Keywords: Autonomy; Cultural Changes; Cultural Diversity; Diversity; Education; Personal Growth; Positive relationships; Purpose in Life; Self Acceptance; Values

Subjects: Friendship; Great Depression; Kendal; Military; Modern Culture; New England; Oberlin College; Unity; University of Vermont; Veterans; World War Two

Partial Transcript: What has made life worth living?

I don't think I've ever thought in those terms, really. Just the things I've talked about; the interest, the people. I think it's interesting. Sounds like something asked to someone who is depressed. I think we all go through times that are tough, and I've been there too. It's kind of a flip statement: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I think there's a lot of truth to it.
There's an old song from the Depression: "It's what you do with what you've got, never mind how much you've got. It's what you DO with what you've got that pays off in the end".

Segment Synopsis: Marilyn's interests and people she has known have made life worth living, but she reiterates that life shouldn't be completely happy. She shares a Depression era song about what matters.

Keywords: Personal Growth; Positive Relationships; Purpose in life

Subjects: Depression; Overcoming obstacles

Partial Transcript: How has education helped you find your purpose in life?

I know it gave me a broader spectrum. I do have a cousin that grew up in the same small town. She married right after high school and had six children; one died from sudden infant death. She married a fine man, and neither one of them went to college. One of the kids did. Several of the young men went into the military. I consider the military training to be education.

I have a bit of a problem with what I consider an "elitist" attitude of people who have a college background, and who have many generations of college background behind them. I think it colors our politics, and I will never deny the fact that people who are skilled workers, farmers and fishermen, [are just as accomplished]. My husband's father grew up on island off the coast of Maine, and there are generations of fishermen there. I am well aware of the fact that weather determines so much for people living on the sea, or people in shipping. That family had a lot of military people. There's more than one way to go, and we very much need to show respect for the different things needed. I guess that gives a little background-- I can get pretty fiercely independent in some things, and I know very well I come by that naturally. It's part of the culture, and I'm so glad I've have that behind me.

Being a physical therapist and working with people who have significant loss physically, or from brain trauma. What you're trained to do is look at the losses, what you have left, and what you can work with. That's very valid. It goes back to the song, doesn't it? I see it here all the time! They may be going along fine, and active, and the next day we see their picture up because they've just dropped dead. There are other people who've had severe losses and they have to deal with it. Once again, what do you have left? This place is truly different, and we are encouraged to blend people in the nursing home that are included in the meals and all the activities. We can still keep active-- it's so different and so important.
[In a way, Kendall is like a school?]
It is! Yes, Yolanda Cruz [a professor at Oberlin] was here yesterday and she's coming back two other times. She's talking about genetics, and epigenetics, and cancer. It is an educational institution, and that's part of the success. There is talk about the fact that in retirement communities, there are two types: the cruise ships, and the kubutzes. And Kendall is definitely a kubutz. We have 90-100 comities; there is no activities director. All the comities are formed by the residents: the word is "okay, if you think we need one, get together a group, and present it. Where are you going to meet, when are you going to meet? Do you need funding or not?". That's so different than being told "okay we are going to have such and such activity at this time". Some places even have you sit at the same table all the time! I mean, deadly! So, this depends on the Kendall principles for caring for people and nature. It also depends on our administration that supports it. I can easily round up a bunch of people that would say it is completely unique.

[Interviewer asks about theatre at Kendall]

Segment Synopsis: Education gave Marilyn a broader spectrum of purposes, and she discusses that even without traditional education one may find purpose. She describes the elitist attitude that some people with traditional education backgrounds may have, and how it may affect politics and overlook the working class. With some personal examples, Marilyn says that there is more than one road of "education" and we need to show respect for different needs. These opinions come from her natural independence and culture.
Being a physical therapist has made her consider "loss", which she can apply to her life at Kendall. The facility blends people and encourages multiple forms of growth and education. There are classes offered, and comities of the clients come up with these activities rather than having the institution make the schedule. Kendall cares for the autonomy of its clients and is unique for that.

Keywords: Autonomy; Culture; Diversity; Education; Family; Personal Growth; Principles; Self acceptance

Subjects: Classism; Death; Family History; First generation scholar; Kendal; Loss; Military; Oberlin College; Physical Therapy; Politics; Skill; Trauma

Partial Transcript: Are you interested in classes at Kendall?

[Pertaining to theatre] They have play readers. The first time I heard they were having a play reader show, I thought that didn't sound too good, and I didn't go, but everyone was raving about it. Now I make sure I go to all of them. Last week, we had a presentation; this play was a mystery written by one of the people here, a retired MD. They put that on as a matinee on Friday and an evening show on Saturday. That's not my field, but there are people who might be interested.

There was one girl here, she must be a senior, and she was interested in working with older people, and she had done an internship here last summer. I think it's wonderful that young people get to know older people, and that older people get to meet the young people, too. There's an understanding there. There used to be a course for freshmen [First Year Seminar Program] about end of life issues. When I heard about that, I thought "wow! Who ever heard of this?" and I heard there was a waiting list to get in it! I thought "Oh, this is different!". I know some people who had discussions and for people going into medicine, I think that is very helpful.

I think that if you are going into a medical field, it pays off to do some volunteer work in a hospital setting. I've known some people who couldn't stand the smells! University of Vermont has a medical school, and I used to go over occasionally to the library because I liked the smell, and I'd take a book now and then. They accepted 40 students a year; the average was 1 woman. Things have changed! Back then, you didn't have many male nurses. I still have the information that I received about choosing a physical therapy school; there weren't many male physical therapists. A lot of the training was done through the military, and the only school training physical therapists then was Cleveland Clinic, and the one I went to was basically Harvard Medical School. And teachers-- elementary teachers weren't men, they were always women. I'm so glad it's changed! I've seen a lot of good changes.

Segment Synopsis: Marilyn and the interviewer discuss opportunities in theatre for Kendall and the role of student volunteers there. She believes those going into medicine should do volunteer work to prepare themselves. Gender had a large affect on who could go to medical school during her education, and gender roles determined many careers. She is pleased that this has changed.

Keywords: Education; Personal growth; Self acceptance

Subjects: Activities; Careers; Gender Roles; Generations; Internships; Kendal; Oberlin College; Theatre; University of Vermont

Partial Transcript: Where do you think you would be without the education you've had?

I really don't know. I suspect I would have tried to pull it off anyhow. When I went to Simmons, it was totally paid for by March of Dimes; board, room, books. They even had something toward trips home and a vacation. It was a 16 month vacation straight through, from September onward. I don't know if I'd have done that. When I fell into the job to work in the camp for handicapped children, that's where I first learned about physical and occupational therapy. Then, when I was graduating I was looking for a job and I knew there were some laboratory jobs, and I went to a meeting and never went to another meeting with that group. I sat beside a nursing student who was graduating, and she had been approached to apply to be a physical therapy student, and said "well go see Lee Playstead". I did, I applied (and for the scholarship), and that worked. I never thought I'd end up in Ohio. I wasn't sure I'd make it into Kendall. I guess, looking back on my life, I'd leave some allowances for things just opening up. I think when opportunities open up, it's a good idea to move ahead and not hang back too much.

Segment Synopsis: Marilyn doesn't know what her life would be like without education, but believes it has lead her to some great opportunities. She summarizes how she ended up where she did in terms of schooling and career, mentioning that many things just opened up to her. She believes in moving ahead when such opportunities present themselves.

Keywords: Education; Opportunity; Personal Growth; Purpose in life; Self acceptance; Well-Being

Subjects: Careers; Kendal; Ohio; Physical Therapy; Scholarships

Partial Transcript: Thank you so much Marilyn; thank you for telling us these things. I feel Max and I have definitely learned a lot, and this will be a fantastic thing to talk about with Cairo when they hear your story.

Keywords: Collaboration; Oral history; Well-being

Subjects: American University of Cairo